Redditor Returns From Shanghai: “ Why Would You Chinese Want to Immigrate to the US?”

A few days ago, an American Reddit user named @PumduMe visited Shanghai and Suzhou in China and said, “I was blown away.” He was full of praise for the local transportation, city cleanliness, infrastructure, and people—even the surveillance cameras in China looked refreshing to him.

After returning home, he began to reflect: “Given all this, I’m genuinely curious—why do some people in China choose to move to the US or other countries?” He humbly asked, “What’s life really like in China?”

Reading this, as an independent Chinese media outlet, we felt a bit uneasy—after all, Shanghai is the wealthiest city in China. We even wondered, like some foreign netizens, if this might be part of “propaganda” from the Chinese government. But after going through all the comments, we genuinely wished that the “internet army” could be this diverse and realistic.

Reason for emigration 1: Intense competition in China

@random_agency

It’s easier to get to the US than get a hukou in Shanghai.

【Chatgpt‘s notes：In China, the hukou (户口) system is a household registration system that serves as both an ID system and a means to manage population distribution. Every Chinese citizen is assigned a hukou, which ties them to a specific location, often their place of birth or family origin.

The hukou status (either rural or urban) can determine access to certain benefits and resources, such as public education, healthcare, and housing subsidies. For example, people with an urban hukou in a major city like Beijing or Shanghai may have access to better schools and hospitals than those with a rural hukou or an urban hukou from a smaller city.】

@_bhan
Competition is much higher in Chinese society compared to Western society. This is due to a high concentration of human capital relative to available resources, the cause of which can be traced all the way back to the Great Divergence and the failure of China to industrialize until the 20th century.

Europe was able to export its excess population without much effective resistance from natives during industrialization to the Americas and Australia over several centuries, turning the new world into an extension of the West. Westerners are still benefitting from this today, as they spend their accumulated wealth and earn high profits from established brands.

The Mao-era population boom from improved basic healthcare and political stability could not be exported to other regions. Rather, China had rapid urbanization and concentration of population in desirable areas. Shanghai housing prices, for example, do not reflect local wages, because the wealthy from all over the country bring their capital there to invest.

The attractiveness of the West is much less now compared to the 90s. Back then, every intellectual who could get out did so.  Greencard marriages for intellectuals were not unheard of back then. These days, it’s more like “if I can get the H1B lottery, I’ll stay, but it’s not the end of the world if I can’t.”

Many netizens have different views on this point, believing that while high-end jobs in China are highly competitive, living as an average citizen in China is actually more comfortable than living abroad.

@Safe-Yard-6069 shared that they worked in China for seven years and are currently traveling in China.

There’s a lot to like about life in China when you’ve lived in a society that’s gone woke and broke, and where it’s impossible to buy even basic food without a high salary.

@festy_nine

In China, even if I’m poor, I can still afford to let my children finish school, and I don’t have to worry about issues like drugs or promiscuity.

@Ok_Win4481

Cars are relatively cheap in China now (Chinese brands) – you can buy a NEW car for 10000 RMB. Can you buy a new car for 10000usd?

phones, household appliances, public transport, rent is quite cheap due to so many apartments on the market. Being young person who just graduated it’s better to earn 3000rmb in China in any small city than earning 3000usd in the US……

Reason for emigration 2: Toxic corporate culture in China

@Panda0nfire said that China’s overtime culture is terrifying.

A big thing in China is the working culture and expectations seem harsher than the US for less pay. It seems regular for people to be asked to work on weekends in China, it happens in the US but there’s an acknowledgement it’s not ok and shouldn’t be the norm.

@sweetestdew shared their experience as a foreign employee, receiving preferential treatment from a Chinese company.

China also does not have a work life balance.

In America we have bounderies when it comes to what our job can ask of us and what we will accept. Chinese workers dont have as strong as boundaries. I once found out my Chinese coworkers had not been paid in 3 months. I on the other hand had been paid, despite the fact that my salary was three time theirs (a whole other conversation). The reason I was paid and they werent was in part because management knows that if forgeneiers miss even one paycheck we’re making a scene.

Reason for emigration 3: The freedom in foreign countries

@fuwei_reddit

No matter how beautiful a zoo is, it is still a prison. All animals want to escape.

@Awkward_Number8249

Can’t make meme about Xi the way US people did with Trump

@tamanish

Perspective power-seekers would go north to Beijing, money-seekers south to Shenzhen, and freedom-seekers abroad.

@UsernameNotTakenX

The competition in China is much higher than in most Western countries. A Chinese moving from a highly competitive environment to a lower one is like a breath of fresh air. ……

Many others like the freedoms in the West where they can do many things that they just can’t do in China. …… There are no individual rights in China that many Westerners take for granted.

This response raised the expectations of other readers. So, @Glum_Marsupial2728 asked: “What can’t you do in China? Just curious.”

@UsernameNotTakenX gave examples：

Well my pilot friends here in China are kind of jealous that in Europe we can fly a plane whenever we want and not have all the bureaucracy having to make applications at least 2 days in advance and all the military restrictions etc. That’s also why many of them trained abroad. Also private property rights don’t exist in China so you can’t buy land and have the freedom to do what you want with it within reason. There’s also a lot of other things regards to investing.

@xtxsinan believes that the experience of the COVID-19 lockdown has made more Chinese people want to emigrate.

Shanghai, southern Jiangsu and northern Zhejiang are the most developed part economically and socially in China.……

But then over the pandemic one could realize that even Shanghai is still in the end a Chinese city that can be drastically affected by a single person’s will. So some people still move because of that.

@brixton_massive also mentioned the COVID-19 pandemic.

‘why do some people from China choose to move to the U.S. or other countries?’

As amazing as China is, once you live there long enough, you notice that it is not a free society and your life could change in an instance if the CCP so decides.

Just look at what happened in the later days of the pandemic and the lockdowns when the rest of the world was opened up and enjoying the world cup. That’s not normal, that was a dictatorship flexing it’s muscles and is evidence you ultimately have no say in the country.

It’s still a great place to live, but that could change in an instance. That’s why many flee, you want somewhere with rule of law and the ability to be free from government over reach.

Unexpectedly, a foreigner, @Humble_Golf_6056, who was stuck in China during the pandemic, disagreed.

I was stuck in China in 2020 and 2021….

It was NOTHING as portrayed in the West. Nothing AT ALL!

My family kept sending me videos I did not recognize. My Chinese suppliers also didn’t recognize the videos.

I am a 100% Western white male, and I do NOT live in China (I wish I did).

I’ll just leave it at that.

PS. I’m NOT looking to get indicted by some overzealous prosecutor!

Reason for emigration 4: More relaxed educational environment

@hcwang34

Money and education. Especially education fucking suck ass in China. Children suffers from very young age by the school work, and in middle school and high school , kids may study up to 16 hours per day. And, even if they get into a decent university in China it meant nothing!

@wanchaoa added further comments.
There’s essentially no real education—just relentless training from dawn to dusk, from elementary school to college graduation. It’s all about math, physics, chemistry, biology workbooks, with a bit of Xi Jinping Thought mixed in. The aim is exam prep for extreme competition. Yes, it produces cheap engineers and labor, but there’s absolutely no focus on social sciences, humanities, or arts—not even a little.

However, foreign netizens failed to empathize with the “miserable lives” of Chinese students.

@jplm3312

That sounds like a compelling argument on why having a worse education system is better and why unaffordability of higher education is the way

@Informal_Air_5026

either that or you get the equivalent of Maga population in China… the rat race sucks, but imo a higher educated population is always better

Reason for emigration 5: Wealthy individuals concerned about asset redistribution.

This is a “grey” reason, and we don’t have more evidence. If the wealthy (or criminals) are emigrating because of this, does it mean that China is becoming fairer?

@daaangerz0 believes that the majority of people emigrating now are from China’s wealthy class, who are moving abroad to avoid China redistributing their assets.

High end salaries aren’t that bad. There are plenty of tech people earning six figs in USD, which goes a lot further with the quality of life here.

The people immigrating now are mostly wealthy merchants looking to diversify investments. The CCP doesn’t like people getting too rich so those with funds have to move their assets elsewhere to avoid getting seized.

@Able-Worldliness8189 said that the wealthy people around them don’t even dare to eat in public places — which raises the question: Are the things they’re doing legal?

They are moving away for personal safety. That’s a big difference. Everyone with a dime in their pocket is afraid for everyone else. I count a fair number of super wealthy locals as friends and non of them like to hang out in public, when going to a restaurant typically we eat in private rooms, non of them like to hang out with people they don’t know really well or do business with. Everyone is afraid.

So they want to move away. A good number of classmates fathers are gone out of the country, a chunk live in Dubai, why you think that happens?

“They’re not thinking about emigrating, they’re celebrating Trump’s election.”

In addition to the serious responses above, some netizens in the comment section gradually strayed from the topic of “immigration” and shared a bit about what “life is really like in China.”

@sayno2druggyz, who stayed in China for over a month, observed that the Chinese people he encountered showed little interest in the United States.

I wanted to add one thing I noticed that I just don’t see much of in the states is everyone walking the streets, riding in the subway, or in restaurants are smiling and laughing. Friends of all ages are talking to each other and just having pure good time without any alcohol or drugs. China is pretty damn amazing.

One other thing is back home we’re all wondering “ what are the Chinese going to do and how are they living” it’s funny because no one in China gives a shit about the US not like a bad way but it’s not even a conversation. There’s so much going on there. And they all like Donald Trump! They think he’s hilarious and would vote for him over kalama if given the chance. Apart from him trying to start a trade war lol

@Clockwork_Orchid provided some data on the number of Chinese immigrants.

There’s not actually that many Chinese emigres on a percentage basis. A quick google says there are 2.5 million Chinese immigrants total in the US. There are 1.4 billion Chinese people in China. That’s 0.17%, and frankly you can find 0.17% of people who will do anything.

For me personally, it’s because I’m lazy and working in China was too hard so instead I slack off in Silicon Valley。

@ActiveProfile689 wanted to break the foreign perspective and talked about his life in the suburbs of Shanghai:

In my area in outer Shanghai, I see one out of business store after another. Restaurants, hotels, convenience stores, gyms, even a pet store have closed in recent years. Of course there are some new things but the trend is obvious.

Many sidewalks and buildings are crumbling. Many unemployed young people. Some malls seem to be doing alright, but down the street, probably not. There are newer high-tech buildings, but some existing buildings look completely abandoned. I see one abandoned looking hotel every day. I wonder what it was like ten or 15 years ago.

So far as safety, it is low crime, but walking down the street, you will often be dodging crazy scooter drivers on the sidewalk weaving between people. I may not likely ever be robbed, but my chances of getting hit seem very high. I’ve had many near misses. Always have to look around in every direction, just walking down an otherwise quiet street. Scooters drive the wrong way on the street all the time. There is no doubt the subway is amazing if it goes where you need to go. There are some cross town lines under construction that will improve things in the future.

As a result, @pillkrush, who lives in New York, seemed indifferent and even expressed interest in retiring in China.

lol ur right about the scooters. just came back from China and i tell everyone in nyc how safe it was, how i wasn’t afraid walking at night, etc. “so it wasn’t dangerous?” no, it was hella dangerous because everyday i almost got hit by a scooter or car😅
i was in a small city, but even with the scooters….i’m legit thinking about retiring to China

@NbyNW recommended another Chinese city that is suitable for retirement.

Life in 3rd tier cities like Shenyang are pretty comfortable though… Cost of living is lower, cheaper to buy condos, and there are almost no traffic jams. I live in Seattle and there are simply part of town that I would never go to, and plenty of places where I would not be comfortable walking after 9pm even though I’m a 40 year old man. Safe from crimes is a really nice thing.

If you’ve read this far, we apologize. We didn’t mention at the beginning that this Reddit post has already been featured on Chinese paid websites, and the first reaction from Chinese netizens was:

@徜徉07: Hmm, this post is obviously trying to provoke people to criticize China!

After reading the comments from Reddit users, the responses from Chinese netizens are as follows:

@a18650395
Immigrating is because there is no extradition treaty between China and the U.S.

@coco

China may not be so “friendly” to the top 1% or 0.1%, but it serves the 90% or even 99% of the general public.

@随便起个名字就好

The income gap in technical positions is a major reason, followed by some small capitalists or small bourgeoisie who feel class anxiety and tend to emigrate. Finally, there are those who long for their spiritual motherland. China must climb higher on the industrial chain, otherwise, it will have no voice in global income distribution. Doing the hardest work for the smallest income. Over time, this will only lead to talent drain.

@Zev叶月

In the 90s, people who went abroad from Beijing, Shanghai, and Guangzhou, in the last decade, those who have done well and don’t care about money, or those who didn’t do well and don’t have fixed assets, have all returned. Only those who are struggling to establish themselves and understand that they need to make sacrifices remain there. A few of my relatives and friends either returned for healthcare, or completed their studies and came back, or gave up on staying abroad. Less than a quarter of those who persist in staying in the U.S., Europe, or Australia.

@闷骚男

Under the influence of the pro-Western values held by some people in China, some Chinese have come to understand not the real foreign countries, but the idealized foreign countries in their fantasies.

— It seems that what we need to understand is not just “Real Life in China,” but also “Real Life in the West?”